tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post6381708958742311104..comments2023-11-29T07:39:34.401+00:00Comments on Carla Nayland Historical Fiction: Hrethmonath (March): the early English calendarCarlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-25537695611988781772008-04-29T11:41:00.000+01:002008-04-29T11:41:00.000+01:00"So, quite a bit of speculation, but no actual pro..."So, quite a bit of speculation, but no actual proof anywhere it seems!"<BR/>Par for the course for this period :-)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-91473195267363899992008-04-27T22:58:00.000+01:002008-04-27T22:58:00.000+01:00P.S. Just thought, what I meant and should have sa...P.S. Just thought, what I meant and should have said, is that if Grimm had connected the use of Retmonat with the North Sea area, it might have made the association of Hretha with the Angles more likely.<BR/>Should have known better than to present a scientist with a sloppy argument :-)Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-51408735209331838492008-04-27T21:45:00.000+01:002008-04-27T21:45:00.000+01:00Agreed, Carla. As Grimm points out, several Teuton...Agreed, Carla. As Grimm points out, several Teutonic goddesses were honoured under different names by various Germanic tribes and he comments that the lack of any information about Hretha in both Germany and Anglo-Saxon England is "a clear proof, that here (Germany) as well as there (England), heathenism was crowded with divinities of various shape and varying name, but who in their characteristics and cultus corresponded to one another" and that this confusion is even more apparent in the case of female deities.<BR/><BR/>So, quite a bit of speculation, but no actual proof anywhere it seems!Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-60631902173452526862008-04-27T13:33:00.000+01:002008-04-27T13:33:00.000+01:00"If he'd mentioned the North Sea area it would hav..."If he'd mentioned the North Sea area it would have tied up neatly with the Nerthus theory."<BR/>Maybe, though some indication of Hretha's role and attributes would have been even moe helpful :-) When all we have is a name it's impossible to say whether Hretha and Nerthus were connected; even if both were identified with the same area they could still be different deities.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-49228393038414589192008-04-25T22:46:00.000+01:002008-04-25T22:46:00.000+01:00Thanks for the welcome, Carla. I hope you'll bear ...Thanks for the welcome, Carla. I hope you'll bear with me while I learn how to add links to other webpages!<BR/>Unfortunately <A HREF="http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/013_10.php" REL="nofollow">Grimm</A> is not specific about where in Germany "Retmonat" was used. If he'd mentioned the North Sea area it would have tied up neatly with the Nerthus theory.Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-7910470319909402202008-04-25T12:18:00.000+01:002008-04-25T12:18:00.000+01:00Hello Annis and welcome. Thanks for the link. We...Hello Annis and welcome. Thanks for the link. We know so little of Hretha that many interpretations are possible, and certainly a goddess called Nerthus was of great importance to at least some of the Germanic peoples (Tacitus mentions her in <I>Germania</I>) and may have had other names. Retmonat does look like a direct descendant of Hrethmonath in modernised spelling. Did he say which parts of Germany used the name?Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-87926072757381932742008-04-25T06:11:00.000+01:002008-04-25T06:11:00.000+01:00Thanks for the interesting information on the mont...Thanks for the interesting information on the month of March, Carla.<BR/><BR/>Here's an <A HREF="http://www.northvegr.org/northern/book/runes002.php" REL="nofollow">article</A> which postulates that the Anglo-Saxon goddess Hretha might be an incarnation of the Germanic goddess Nerthus, who may have been brought to Britain by the Angles.<BR/><BR/>In his "Teutonic Mythology", Jakob Grimm (of Grimm's Fairy Tales fame) presents evidence that in some parts of Germany the old name for March was Retmonat or Redtimonet, names which seem to be directly cognate with the Anglo-Saxon. <BR/><BR/>Re stevent's question about the March being named after the Roman god Mars; <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/empire/martiana/mars/index.html" REL="nofollow">Mars</A> was originally a god of springtime and fertility before taking on a dual role as god of war, possibly because, as suggested, spring was campaign season.Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-14283210424447379042008-04-25T00:41:00.000+01:002008-04-25T00:41:00.000+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-54681245286690109672008-03-14T14:13:00.000+00:002008-03-14T14:13:00.000+00:00Indeed, Bernita, that's a possible interpretation ...Indeed, Bernita, that's a possible interpretation and would make perfect sense.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-65215227140018293472008-03-14T08:41:00.000+00:002008-03-14T08:41:00.000+00:00I would prefer to interpret the "victory" as over ...I would prefer to interpret the "victory" as over the death of winter, sol victorious sort of thing.<BR/>(But that's probably influenced by our last storm...)Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-88524266187864060592008-03-13T10:11:00.000+00:002008-03-13T10:11:00.000+00:00Constance, Meghan - glad you found it interesting!...Constance, Meghan - glad you found it interesting! <BR/><BR/>Rick - for all we know it might have been :-) Or it might have been some bloodthirsty rite, or anything in between. Who's to say what would be considered a fitting gift for a goddess of storm and victory? Even associating Hretha with storm and victory is inference based on her name - she could have been quite a different personality. As ever, you can take your choice.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-49129767657767218522008-03-13T04:18:00.000+00:002008-03-13T04:18:00.000+00:00Since this is the only mention of Hretha, I guess ...Since this is the only mention of Hretha, I guess we haven't a clue of what the sacrifice to her entailed. But from her description, the sacrifice was probably not draping garlands of flowers on her altar.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-35042577547932547292008-03-12T20:56:00.000+00:002008-03-12T20:56:00.000+00:00Interesting information! In California we don't re...Interesting information! In California we don't really have seasons (just earthquakes and fires) but it's been both gloomy and sunny here. I wish it would be more sunny than gloomy though...Meghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03375626649089998707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-48537201092784583862008-03-12T13:25:00.000+00:002008-03-12T13:25:00.000+00:00neat! I love information like this. Thanks for sha...neat! I love information like this. Thanks for sharing. (And the geese have arrived back in my part of the world, honking and flapping)Constance Brewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17964121072645959593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-90471582491662243242008-03-12T11:59:00.000+00:002008-03-12T11:59:00.000+00:00Gabriele - the 'month of the longer days' would be...Gabriele - the 'month of the longer days' would be appropriate for March, especially as it contains the equinox when the days become longer than the nights.<BR/><BR/>Steven - there's a <A HREF="http://pballew.net/mon_name.html" REL="nofollow">suggestion</A> that March marked the start of the campaigning season in Rome. Warfare was forbidden during the period of festival between one year and the next, so the first month of the new year - which was March - was also the time when wars could start up again. I don't know the source for this. Spring also corresponds with the advent of longer days and drier and warmer weather, which has obvious practical advantages for outdoor activities, like marching and fighting. The Old English year began at the winter solstice, so there's no direct correspondence with the Roman idea of new year = war = first month of the year = god(dess) of war, but the practical aspects would be common to anywhere in temperate Europe.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-36226686327187287952008-03-11T20:40:00.000+00:002008-03-11T20:40:00.000+00:00Do we know why the Romans chose to name this parti...Do we know why the Romans chose to name this particular month after Mars, the god of victory and war? Maybe both societies had parallel reasoning, though separate in influence, in naming this month after a god/goddess of war. For example, if Rome chose to dedicate this month to Mars for support in the upcoming campaigning season, then maybe your thoughts about the early English dedicating it to Hrethmonath for the same reason is accurate. I don't know why the Romans chose Mars for this month, but maybe their reasoning could shed some light on the early English reasoning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-975206391428474892008-03-11T18:28:00.000+00:002008-03-11T18:28:00.000+00:00In old German, it's Lenzinmanod, the month of the ...In old German, it's Lenzinmanod, the month of the longer days. Lenz was often used for <I>spring</I> in poetry. <BR/><BR/>As if we don't get storms, lol.Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.com