tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post5743727373471861874..comments2023-11-29T07:39:34.401+00:00Comments on Carla Nayland Historical Fiction: Location of the seventh-century church in YorkCarlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-77945611104178314532010-01-27T18:04:53.100+00:002010-01-27T18:04:53.100+00:00Bernita - yes, it's an attractive idea, though...Bernita - yes, it's an attractive idea, though there's no evidence in support.<br /><br />Constance - the principia courtyard may well have provided a nice flat hardstanding surface for laying timber sill beams or post pads, and later a solid base for the stone walls. If anyone ever excavates the courtyard we might find out :-)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-25290265235382945942010-01-25T14:16:00.617+00:002010-01-25T14:16:00.617+00:00Why build elsewhere when someone else has done all...Why build elsewhere when someone else has done all the groundwork. SO to speak. Damn engineers. :) <br />Interesting post.Constance Brewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17964121072645959593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-1815094988624746342010-01-25T13:24:26.943+00:002010-01-25T13:24:26.943+00:00"If there was such a well in the principia co..."If there was such a well in the principia courtyard at York, possibly there may have been a shadowy tradition that it was a ‘lucky’ or ‘holy’ or ‘powerful’ well (even if no-one remembered why) and therefore an auspicious site for the baptism of a king and the establishment of a new church."<br />I'm the sort who tends to give this possibility considerable weight.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-19747873133354068122010-01-24T12:24:03.501+00:002010-01-24T12:24:03.501+00:00Gabriele - The remains give an idea of just how im...Gabriele - The remains give an idea of just how impressive the principia must have been - on the same sort of scale as the current cathedral. Imagine what the locals must have made of it at the time. <br />Maybe the staff control access to the undercroft because it's fairly cramped - you wouldn't want crowds of people trying to shove their way around down there - or maybe for the ubiquitous 'security reasons'.<br /><br />Rick - The west corner of the principia is underneath another church, St Michael le Belfry, which as it's exactly on the Roman alignment may well be an early building, perhaps re-using some of the existing Roman walls and/or foundations. The south corner and the rest of the south range (where the gateway would have been) is underneath the modern street of High Petergate and the buildings on its north side, and most of the courtyard is underneath the modern street of Deangate. The east corner (the back right-hand corner of the cross-hall and the offices) and a little bit of the courtyard are underneath the present Minster Yard. That area has been excavated a bit (I don't know how extensively), and is where the Anglo-Scandinavian cemetery was found. One reason there was so much excitement when the Minster foundations had to be underpinned is that it was recognised that this might be just about the only excavation opportunity on such a built-up site.<br /><br />Meghan - glad you found it interesting, thank you! I think the difficulty with precisely identifying the location of historical sites is twofold; firstly the chroniclers at the time knew perfectly well where the site was, as did everyone else, so there was no need to give details, and secondly until detailed maps with latitude/longitude became commonplace it wasn't all that easy to give a precise location even if you wanted to, except by reference to other landmarks which might themselves subsequently disappear. So Bede can cheerfully say that a key battle took place 'at a famous place called Degsastan', which he then helpfully tells us means 'Degsa's Stone', but however famous the site was in 731 its location is now unknown. Similarly with Tacitus' battle of Agricola against the Caledonians under Calgacus at Mons Graupius - the best we can do with that is 'somewhere in eastern Scotland'.<br /><br />If the location of your character's home village isn't known, in some ways that's liberating for a writer. You can pick whichever of the candidate sites fits best into your story, or the one with the most dramatic views, or the one you found most interesting to visit, and go with that. And if someone later excavates definitive evidence that it was somewhere else, you can gracefully admit as such in your historical note.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-67990281993587224272010-01-24T02:41:22.846+00:002010-01-24T02:41:22.846+00:00I love this post! It's detailed and you presen...I love this post! It's detailed and you present an interesting argument. I even like the inclusion of the picture so that we can see the structure better.<br /><br />It's funny you mention how hard it is to sometimes pin down the location of a historical structure. I keep trying to write about my main character's home village but nobody is sure where it was located in Attica. There are some clues but when trying to describe his home and the view it offers I have no idea what to write. @_@;Meghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03375626649089998707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-14026172310781482142010-01-23T19:56:45.127+00:002010-01-23T19:56:45.127+00:00What is on the site today, apart from the Minster ...What is on the site today, apart from the Minster itself? If the part of the principia that isn't under the structure were under open churchyard, I'd be surprised that it hasn't been excavated more. But if it is under modern buildings, that obviously is a different matter.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-14440122087816154532010-01-22T20:00:29.120+00:002010-01-22T20:00:29.120+00:00I've seen the Roman remains underneath the min...I've seen the Roman remains underneath the minster. But the staff is very picky about photographing and only small, guided groups are allowed in a few times per day. I'm not sure what they are afraid of - maybe too much human presence. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.com