tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post2987273292314621619..comments2023-11-29T07:39:34.401+00:00Comments on Carla Nayland Historical Fiction: The Boleyn Inheritance, by Philippa Gregory. Book reviewCarlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-63442983265641627032008-04-15T12:47:00.000+01:002008-04-15T12:47:00.000+01:00Gabriele - The real Henry was blond not dark, and ...Gabriele - The real Henry was blond not dark, and probably not quite so moodily glamorous, but yes, he was one hot hunk in his youth according to contemporary records. The Venetian ambassador described him as "extremely handsome; nature could not have done more for him" and positively swooned over the sight of him playing tennis "the prettiest thing in the world..... his fair skin glowing through a shirt of the finest texture." (Quoted in Antonia Fraser, <I>The Six Wives of Henry VIII</I>, ISBN 0-7493-1409-5, so you'll have to take her word for the translation.) <BR/><BR/>As Rick says, standards of beauty vary over time, so Henry might or might not be considered a heart-throb now. Though I wonder if this is partly because portraits, especially formal portraits, have difficutly conveying mobility of expression, and that can be a large part of what makes someone attractive. <BR/><BR/>Rick - I think I'd modify your point slightly and say that it has to be coherent on its own terms to feel 'right'. If you know a real period well enough to be sure of what you've changed and why, it's likely that the world you've created will be coherent. But I think it's also possible, though difficult, to create a coherent world <I>de novo</I>.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-78183352804373411222008-04-13T02:11:00.000+01:002008-04-13T02:11:00.000+01:00Carla - "Rightness" is indeed hard to define. Achi...Carla - "Rightness" is indeed hard to define. Achieving it, as with what we've discussed before about fantasy worlds, must have to do with knowing the material, so you know what you are freehanding, and come out with a seamless result.<BR/><BR/>Gabriele - As a young man Henry VIII was reputedly very handsome indeed. You wouldn't know from early portraits of him, but portraits of that era are rarely flattering to our eye - women reputed as famous beauties wouldn't pull a hermit off a wall, to go by some of their portraits.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-42564106049757199942008-04-12T23:43:00.000+01:002008-04-12T23:43:00.000+01:00Was the real Henry VIII ever so handsome? I would...Was the real Henry VIII ever so handsome? <BR/><BR/>I would explain a few things, though. ;)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-76726539436494887252008-04-12T17:35:00.000+01:002008-04-12T17:35:00.000+01:00Rick - Yes, that elusive quality of looking 'right...Rick - Yes, that elusive quality of looking 'right', even if it isn't necessarily accurate. I couldn't begin to define it. Given that the film is a fairy tale, it can do what it likes with the costume, so that perhaps suited the freehand approach particularly well.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-57028395467299150922008-04-12T03:26:00.000+01:002008-04-12T03:26:00.000+01:00An aside on how well-done Hollywood costume can fe...An aside on how well-done Hollywood costume can feel accurate even when it isn't. We saw "Ever After" in the theater when it came out, and my memory was of it having had very authentic looking early 16th c. French court costume. <BR/><BR/>Seeing it again more recently on TV, that isn't strictly true - the specifics were not accurate, but the flavor of Ren court costume was so nicely done that my initial memory fooled me. And this is a fairy tale, loosely set in a Ren French milieu - nothing claiming to be a historical piece as such. (No surprise, historical costumers love the film in spite of knowing its freehanded details.)Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-65251071782907143372008-04-11T23:49:00.000+01:002008-04-11T23:49:00.000+01:00Gabriele - oh yes, it has those, and lots of heavi...Gabriele - oh yes, it has those, and lots of heaving bosoms to match. Have you seen the publicity stills with Henry wearing half a shirt and sitting moodily in a chair with three low-cut and amply-filled frocks looming behind him? (Example <A HREF="http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/tudors/285400" REL="nofollow">here</A>). That shows you what to expect :-)<BR/><BR/>Rick - Great definition! On a small random sample no, it doesn't, but they are frightfully pretty. Nor accurate architecture - my partner tells me there was a shot of a flashy carriage pulling up in front of a colonnaded classical-style entrance, a style that wasn't in vogue for another three hundred years or so. I suppose bedroom romps have the same (lack of) costume in any era, and only a history geek would be looking at the architecture anyway :-) <BR/><BR/>"it just was set in a generic HollyPast, where Cleopatra could be delivered to Henry VIII wrapped in a rug" <BR/>You have it in a nutshell.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-78926502763604538412008-04-11T22:45:00.000+01:002008-04-11T22:45:00.000+01:00My definition of a royal court: High school with h...My definition of a royal court: High school with halberds.<BR/><BR/>Does the TV miniseries even have credible period costume? When I saw a huge ad in the paper for it, for a moment I thought it was something Roman. <BR/><BR/>Now, a fashionable woman in any era can wear nothing but a sheet, if that is the effect you want (and I am no one to complain, since my protagonist wears a blanket for an important encounter), but the guy's costume hardly looked Tudor either.<BR/><BR/>So at least in the ad they weren't trying for even superficial verisimilitude - it just was set in a generic HollyPast, where Cleopatra could be delivered to Henry VIII wrapped in a rug.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-5019936657337750272008-04-11T20:04:00.000+01:002008-04-11T20:04:00.000+01:00Well, as long as it has hot guys .... :)Well, as long as it has hot guys .... :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-38458852186666806962008-04-11T17:09:00.000+01:002008-04-11T17:09:00.000+01:00Form what I've seen of it, you're not missing much...Form what I've seen of it, you're not missing much, unless you're an aficionado for glitzy soap opera in period costume.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-5767194870389573592008-04-11T15:05:00.000+01:002008-04-11T15:05:00.000+01:00Can't get the Tudors here. :(Can't get the Tudors here. :(Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-73093556321066241662008-04-11T13:02:00.000+01:002008-04-11T13:02:00.000+01:00Alianore - I thought Kitty Howard was great! Megh...Alianore - I thought Kitty Howard was great! <BR/><BR/>Meghan - hope you found the review helpful! There does seem to be rather a lot of Tudor fiction around just now (!) - did you read Susan' Higginbotham's <A HREFE="http://susandhigginbotham.blogspot.com/2008/04/us-uk-publishers-declare-tudor.html" HREF="" REL="nofollow">take on it</A>?<BR/><BR/>Gabriele - um, isn't that what the TV show <I>The Tudors</I> is?<BR/><BR/>Daphne - thanks! Yes, Katherine's sexual precocity was a bit much at times, wasn't it? I kept forgetting she was supposed to be only 14 and thinking of her as 18 or so, which seems to be a more usual age for her in novels.<BR/><BR/>Rick - Sensible man! I half wish I'd done the same... Anne of Cleves perhaps also lacked the related art of flattery, which would be difficult in a strange culture in any case. Certainly at their first meeting she was far too honest for her own good!<BR/><BR/>Bernita - thank you. I thought she had the characters abou right.<BR/><BR/>Constance - if you liked Bridget Jones (film or book), you could read it for Kitty Howard :-) Henry doesn't actually appear all that much, he dominates the book from a distance, if that makes any sense.<BR/><BR/>Rick - Yes, Jane Lady Rochford. She got to keep her husband's title after he was executed - possibly as a reward for her compliance in giving evidence? Indeed, she wasn't as clever as she thought, though to be fair Machiavelli himself would have been hard put to out-scheme the Duke of Norfolk. This is one case where knowing her fate actually makes the book work better, because you know what happens to her and you can see the gap between her imaginings and the reality.<BR/>In the novel her hysterics are part of an attempt to feign insanity to avoid execution (the Duke has previously told her that a lunatic can't be executed), then a reaction to realising that she isn't going to be let off after all, and finally a horrified realisation that she is going to die literally with Kitty Howards' blood on her hands. Chilling and effective.<BR/>I suppose most people had either accepted their fate or blocked it out somehow, or trusted that they were going to God.<BR/><BR/>Carol - That's one of the things that interests me about Jane Boleyn/Lady Rochford. She's gone down to history as a pretty unpleasant person (Philippa Gregory's author's note describes her as "a horror"), but who's to know exactly what choices she was faced with at the time, or to say that any of us would have done any better? Henry's court must have been a truly terrifying place, when people could be arrested at a moment's notice and executed on feeble evidence, if any at all. It might have been a little like living under occupation - where's the line between powerless victim being pushed around by the regime and collaborator? Mary Boleyn certainly came out of it better than most of her family :-)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-85759981231377161582008-04-10T13:40:00.000+01:002008-04-10T13:40:00.000+01:00Jane Boleyn was Lady Rochefort. I guess she wasn'...Jane Boleyn was Lady Rochefort. I guess she wasn't a pleasant character, her greed was tempered by her fighting for survival, unfortunately trusting Norfolk. However, who knows what many of us would have done living in those precarious times. Mary Boleyn seems to have had the right idea to get away and yet let her daughter Catherine go!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12165688485434172060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-33243751013137317802008-04-09T20:13:00.000+01:002008-04-09T20:13:00.000+01:00The third POV in the book, Jane Boleyn - is she AK...The third POV in the book, Jane Boleyn - is she AKA Lady Rochefort? If so, she wasn't so smart as she thought, was she?<BR/><BR/>As I recall, historically she went into hysterics on the scaffold. The amazing thing being that so many <I>didn't</I>.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-10523116677901574092008-04-09T14:23:00.000+01:002008-04-09T14:23:00.000+01:00Henry's never been one of my favorites, probably f...Henry's never been one of my favorites, probably for all the reasons you name. :) If I read it (*whines* not my era), I'd read it for the women...Constance Brewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17964121072645959593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-54771758531551273912008-04-09T12:31:00.000+01:002008-04-09T12:31:00.000+01:00Interesting.Her take articulates my impression of ...Interesting.<BR/>Her take articulates my impression of the three women as well.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-31032772662234142022008-04-09T02:31:00.000+01:002008-04-09T02:31:00.000+01:00Carla - I thumbed through to the end of The Virgin...Carla - I thumbed through to the end of <I>The Virgin's Lover</I> to learn the spoiler.<BR/><BR/>The "Flanders Mare" slur was only invented much later, as I recall. What Anne probably did lack was sophistication and elegance - sophistication in the courtly sense; she may have been plenty shrewd, and seems to have handled the whole imbroglio with some aplomb.<BR/><BR/>Gabriele - That is a true mystery. Why does Hollywood have to make a shambles of the Tudors and the Julio-Claudians, when the facts have been tabloid stuff for 500/2000 years?Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-49920765776285396482008-04-09T00:41:00.000+01:002008-04-09T00:41:00.000+01:00Great review! I enjoyed this book very much. Whe...Great review! I enjoyed this book very much. When I read it, my own daughter was the same age as Kitty Howard and I remember thinking that is exactly how a teenage girl would react - especially one with her background. I also remember being quite creeped out a few times too (with the sexual aspect of her character).Daphnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12838072651419264066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-30008403935533221452008-04-08T20:52:00.000+01:002008-04-08T20:52:00.000+01:00Makes one wonder why no channel has produced a soa...Makes one wonder why no channel has produced a soap opera about Henry VIII and his wives yet, they could actually stay close to history and still get all the sex and crime. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-17055007996070083332008-04-08T19:18:00.000+01:002008-04-08T19:18:00.000+01:00Thanks for the review, Carla. The court of Henry V...Thanks for the review, Carla. The court of Henry VIII is always an interesting topic, and there are so many books to chose from that any review is always helpful when choosing trying decide which book to buy!Meghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03375626649089998707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-77236958362037360582008-04-08T19:00:00.000+01:002008-04-08T19:00:00.000+01:00I quite enjoyed The Boleyn Inheritance, especially...I quite enjoyed <I>The Boleyn Inheritance</I>, especially Kitty Howard - loved your idea of her as Bridget Jones! I thought <I>The Other Boleyn Girl</I> was readable, but I had the same reaction as you and Elizabeth, and I gave up on <I>Queen's Fool</I> and <I>Virgin's Lover</I> after a few chapters. Might try <I>Constant Princess</I>, though I've read very mixed reviews of it.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-29096283069188313632008-04-08T18:06:00.000+01:002008-04-08T18:06:00.000+01:00James - many thanks for letting me know - I'm flat...James - many thanks for letting me know - I'm flattered! Wonder how I came to his attention?<BR/><BR/>Elizabeth - I had the same sort of feeling as you about <I>The Other Boleyn Girl</I>. It was quite a fun read but I didn't get the feeling of being there. I'd rate <I>The Boleyn Inheritance</I> as more enjoyable than <I>The Other Boelyn Girl</I>, chiefly because of dizzy Katherine Howard, who is a terrific character, and way better than <I>Queen's Fool</I> and <I>Virgin's Lover</I> which I really didn't get on with very well at all. <BR/><BR/>Carol Warham - Hello and welcome. Kitty Howard was my favourite character in the novel, though I imagine in real life her giddiness and flirting would get annoying. Poor kid - I always feel she had no idea what she was getting into when she married Henry, and got a very raw deal indeed. I felt sorry for Jane Boleyn too, though I guess she should have known better than to trust the Duke of Norfolk given his past form. Of the three, I think I'd get on best with Anne of Cleves!<BR/><BR/>Rick - I read all the way to the end of <I>The Virgin's Lover</I>, in the hope it would improve, but it stayed much the same all the way through - not my kind of thing, I'm afraid. Curiously, in the previous novel (Queen's Fool), Amy made a walk-on appearance near the end and looked to have the potential to be quite interesting, but in Virgin's Lover she had reverted to the sweet small-town maid. It can't have been much fun being married to a man who was the scandal of the country. There is, by the way, a conspiracy theory about her death in <I>The Virgin's Lover</I>, and if you want to know what it was email me and I'll tell you (save you reading the book to find out)!<BR/><BR/>Anne of Cleves was lucky, but she also had the good sense to use the luck and not push it. I think it's the film <I>The Private Life of Henry VIII</I> - the one with Charles Laughton throwing chicken legs over his shoulder - that makes her out to be a very clever woman who took an instant dislike to Henry and cleverly manouevred herself out of the marriage on advantageous terms, for all the world like a modern celebrity divorcee. I think that's going a bit too far, but I certainly don't think she deserved the Flanders Mare epithet. I wonder if things would have worked out differently if someone had had the brains to warn her about Henry's role-playing fantasies? You can imagine very well what she must have thought! - and that scene is played out very well in the novel from all three points of view. BTW, Philippa Gregory works that phrase into the novel rather neatly. As far as I know very little is known about the court at Cleves, except that Anne's mother was strict and straitlaced and her brother was either mean or short of money or both. It doesn't sound like much fun, but whether the relationship was actually dysfunctional I don't think is known. Philippa Gregory nearly <I>always</I> has a dysfunctional brother-sister relationship in her novels, it seems, so I just thought "oh, here it is" and didn't take it as historical truth. I haven't got the book to hand but I think she says in the Author's Note that she is essentially filling in gaps when it comes to Anne's life in Cleves - which is fair game.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-75133448972405226422008-04-08T17:29:00.000+01:002008-04-08T17:29:00.000+01:00My only taste of Philippa Gregory was a few pages ...My only taste of Philippa Gregory was a few pages of <I>The Virgin's Lover</I> - enough to send me to greener pastures. But there's not much you can do with poor Amy Robsart, and much of what you can do involves whipping up a conspiracy theory about her death.<BR/><BR/>Poor Kathee Howard (somehow the spelling fits) is the ghastly second-time-as-farce after Anne Boleyn. Anne of Cleves is interesting - she's gone down as the Flanders Mare, but she made out like a bandit. No one would look good in that dress in the Holbein portrait, and God only knows what she thought when Henry burst in on her. No wonder she wasn't looking her best for him.<BR/><BR/>Was Anne of Cleves' relationship with her brother really dysfunctional? Or was Cleves just the dullest place on earth, so that even being married to Henry VIII looked like a step up?Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-62932119924848814872008-04-08T12:33:00.000+01:002008-04-08T12:33:00.000+01:00I thoroughly enjoyed this book and your feelings f...I thoroughly enjoyed this book and your feelings for the charactors matched my own. I particularly liked the way Katherine starts each chapter asking "Now what do I have?" So simple but paints such a picture of the giddy girl.<BR/>Anne of Cleves came across as solid and likeable. I felt sorry for Jane Boleyn at the end, that she thought she was so clever but was also 'used' by Norfolk. However I feel that in actual fact she may not have been a very likeable charactor.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12165688485434172060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-88620520827870701012008-04-08T12:29:00.000+01:002008-04-08T12:29:00.000+01:00Thanks for the review Carla,I have only read The O...Thanks for the review Carla,<BR/>I have only read The Other Boleyn Girl of Philippa Gregory's Tudor tales about which I wasn't sure. I enjoyed parts of it, but it didn't always 'feel' as if this was the way it was. I'm not in a rush to read the others at the moment, but I trust your judgement and your way with a review and this is useful to know just in case I do pick this one up - not likely, but you never know! I love your comments re Katherine Howard by the way!Elizabeth Chadwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16911841862257909703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-43733125944308535442008-04-08T00:26:00.000+01:002008-04-08T00:26:00.000+01:00Carla, FYI: You've been linked to by http://books...Carla, <BR/><BR/>FYI: You've been linked to by http://booksinq.blogspot.com , one of the more popular lit commentary sites in the US. Congrats<BR/><BR/>JAJames Aachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762006792617588325noreply@blogger.com