tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post254029647881253182..comments2023-11-29T07:39:34.401+00:00Comments on Carla Nayland Historical Fiction: Moon In Leo, by Kathleen Herbert. Book reviewCarlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-74930825649444416792011-05-27T16:34:50.567+01:002011-05-27T16:34:50.567+01:00Rick - astrology is bound up with Rosamund's a...Rick - astrology is bound up with Rosamund's alchemy, reflected in the title. There are a couple of coded prophecies in the novel that Rosamund tries to decode with reference to astrology and alchemy.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-1807693801130846222011-05-27T16:02:01.460+01:002011-05-27T16:02:01.460+01:00Connie, thanks for passing along Mike Jensen's...Connie, thanks for passing along Mike Jensen's reply!<br /><br />The situation sounds very much like the relationship of astronomy and astrology slightly earlier.<br /><br />For novelistic purposes I can imagine that the occult element was of more direct interest. (Might be different in a mystery, but for novels in general ...)Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-2220444785512726632011-05-25T11:13:04.757+01:002011-05-25T11:13:04.757+01:00Annis - I think you posted at slightly different t...Annis - I think you posted at slightly different times, but I happened to moderate both comments together (after having written my reply to Rick's question!) so they appeared at the same time.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-81005197404706522202011-05-24T20:53:09.494+01:002011-05-24T20:53:09.494+01:00How funny- Connie and I must have posted at the sa...How funny- Connie and I must have posted at the same time :)Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-24029018213293725502011-05-24T12:30:47.140+01:002011-05-24T12:30:47.140+01:00I see that Mike and Connie Jensen and Annis have a...I see that Mike and Connie Jensen and Annis have answered the question about alchemy!Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-25623976048998327612011-05-24T12:26:09.870+01:002011-05-24T12:26:09.870+01:00Annis - what a nice thing to say! Thank you, and ...Annis - what a nice thing to say! Thank you, and I am delighted you enjoyed the landscape descriptions in Exile.<br /><br />Rick - Good question. Historically, this is the period of Robert Boyle and Isaac Newton, who studied alchemy and who were also the founders of large parts of modern chemistry and physics. So alchemy was part of the body of knowledge that at this time was being developed into the foundations of modern science. This science aspect is part of the background of the novel, and Robert Boyle actually gets a mention, though he doesn't appear. Some of the characters - generally the ones who have seen more of the world than Rosamund! - have something of this view. Rosamund's brother Stephen, who has been travelling and studying at universities in Europe, ticks her off gently on his return home for using occult names and tells her she could present her experiments to the Royal Society as long as they are accurate and clear. Harry Ravensworth, who doesn't believe in the supernatural, regards alchemy as interchangeable with chemistry, "an interesting and intelligent pastime, a subject for papers to the Royal Society".<br /><br />However, for Rosamund alchemy is more of a religion (there's a line somewhere that refers to it as "her own secretive faith"). Because Rosamund is the central character and most of the story is seen through her eyes, Rosamund's view of alchemy as occult/ religion/ magic is the aspect that dominates. Possibly if Harry Ravensworth had been the central character the science aspect would have been dominant! Both are there in the background environment of the novel, but it's Rosamund's beliefs that come front and centre in the story because she's the central character. Hence the emphasis in the review.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-9632159250199704682011-05-23T23:20:26.730+01:002011-05-23T23:20:26.730+01:00I see that a useful answer to Rick's question ...I see that a useful answer to <a href="http://trifoliumbooks.blogspot.com/p/comments-notes-and-faqs.html" rel="nofollow">Rick's question</a> about the relationship of alchemy to chemistry has been posted on the Trifolium website, along with other points readers have raised about "The Moon in Leo".Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-73619927404637892692011-05-23T15:25:43.244+01:002011-05-23T15:25:43.244+01:00This comment was written by Mike Jensen, the edito...This comment was written by Mike Jensen, the editor of Moon in Leo<br /><br />Rick raises an interesting point.<br /><br />In The Alchemist (1610), Ben Jonson portrays a pair of confidence tricksters, Subtle and Face, who cheat gullible and greedy "investors" out of their money, and their metal goods. This was a play that remained in performance right through the 17th century, obviously presenting a popular view of alchemists.<br /><br />But many scholars we think of as the earliest scientists also practised alchemy. Isaac Newton, for instance, produced more writing on the study of alchemy than he did on either optics or physics. At the time of his death, he had 169 books on the topic of alchemy in his personal library.<br /><br />During the 17th century, practical alchemy started to evolve into chemistry, as it was renamed by Robert Boyle in his book, The Sceptical Chemist.<br /><br />In Moon in Leo, Kathleen Herbert represents Adam Halistan as both a mystical scholar and a practical experimental scientist. <br />There is a purpose built and fully equipped laboratory in his house at Park. <br />"My father is a respected scholar, known to the Royal Society. He corresponds with Mr Evelyn and Mr Boyle, both of them the King's friends," claims Rosamund.<br /><br />Rosamund is amused when Lady Elizabeth refers to him as "a man of learning, a great chemist."<br />"She guessed that 'chemist' stood for 'alchemist' on Lady Elizabeth's lips, with all that meant of vulgar misconceptions about turning lumps of iron into gold." (my italics)<br /><br />However, earlier in the story, Stephen has ridiculed Rosamund's use of occult names for chemicals as old-fashioned:<br /><br />""O Rose, must you use these fantastic names? I'm tired of hearing about Green Lions and Hidden Kings! If you're going to work with mercury and antimony, or extract iron from a thunderstone, why can't you say so in plain English?"<br />"You know very well why."<br />"My poor girl, are you afraid Sir John Westby will have you swung for a witch?"<br />"Have you forgotten how many of our family died horribly for other men's fear or greed?"<br />He laughed impatiently.<br />"Those days are long past. You can put anything you like down on paper and read it to the Royal Society, provided you make it scientifically accurate - and clear."<br /><br />Kathleen has in mind that, for all his efforts to follow the developments of London based scientists, Adam and his daughter are rather behind the times in the backwater of Furness. <br /><br />Rosamund has been brought up in an ethos of secrecy and coded language, fuelled by memories of persecution.<br /><br />(Possible Spoiler)<br />Maybe that is why she is drawn to Simon, the occult mage, rather than someone more transparent.Connie Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286314896270215904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-45516181854830545642011-05-22T15:43:06.474+01:002011-05-22T15:43:06.474+01:00Purely a side point, but what was the relationship...Purely a side point, but what was the relationship of alchemy, at that period, to what would eventually become chemistry?<br /><br />Reading between the lines I'd guess 'not much,' because you emphasize the occult element without any hint of proto-science.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-59768774070587425622011-05-22T02:58:06.180+01:002011-05-22T02:58:06.180+01:00The landscape as a strong presence in its own righ...The landscape as a strong presence in its own right is a notable feature of your own work, Carla. It's one of the striking aspects in "Paths of Exile", and I wasn't surprised to discover that you'd personally covered a lot of the ground you describe so vividly :)Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-74863912746203130292011-05-18T06:55:12.588+01:002011-05-18T06:55:12.588+01:00Connie, you are more than welcome to post my comme...Connie, you are more than welcome to post my comments on the Trifolium blog if you'd like, though a guest blog post is probably a bit beyond me :)<br /><br />I do think "Moon in Leo" is compelling and beautifully written. As I said, 20 years ago I would have loved it unreservedly. Unfortunately I'm no longer the romantic I once was, having morphed over the years into a crusty old woman :) I'm not surprised that you've had a lot of positive feedback - it's a novel with a lot of appeal.Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-34400333913694661882011-05-17T18:21:36.273+01:002011-05-17T18:21:36.273+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Connie Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286314896270215904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-42310775600718667682011-05-17T18:21:11.864+01:002011-05-17T18:21:11.864+01:00I agree Meghan- another detailed and scholarly rev...I agree Meghan- another detailed and scholarly review.<br /><br />Annis- thank you for your fresh and slightly critical views. We have had so many very positive comments and reviews of "Moon in Leo" that I was beginning to think that readers would become suspicious, and think we had written them ourselves- it happens! <br /><br />I would like to post your comments on the trifolium blog, or better still, would you be willing to write a guest post?<br /><br />I am too close to both the book and the writer to be critical!Connie Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17286314896270215904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-60591831341490006562011-05-17T08:19:18.212+01:002011-05-17T08:19:18.212+01:00This has been on my Amazon wishlist since you ment...This has been on my Amazon wishlist since you mentioned it recently, Carla - I'm so thrilled to see the area where I grew up play such a huge role in a novel!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-82657584143534741872011-05-15T18:10:26.558+01:002011-05-15T18:10:26.558+01:00Meghan - Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy them!
An...Meghan - Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy them!<br /><br />Annis - thank you. I agree, I liked the three Cumbrian novels very much and was pleased to see Moon In Leo in print. The occult elements are a bit strange, especially at first. I took them as Rosamund's beliefs (in much the same way as I would with a character's religious beliefs) and could accept that she believed them even if I didn't necessarily agree. Very true that intelligence doesn't guarantee common sense - I think that may reflect Rosamund's extremely sheltered upbringing; she seems hardly to have left her home or taken much interest in the outside world all her life, and when she suddenly has to venture out she's hopelessly ill-equipped. The setting was one of the best features for me. I love being able to trace a story on a map and recognise exactly which farm, or which hill, or which hill-tarn appears in the tale :-)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-842025875512010202011-05-14T03:45:53.936+01:002011-05-14T03:45:53.936+01:00Another excellent review, Carla :) I’m a long-time...Another excellent review, Carla :) I’m a long-time fan of Kathleen Herbert’s “Northumbria” trilogy, as you know, and was delighted to see that her last novel had finally made it into print after so many trials and tribulations. <br /><br />I have slightly mixed feelings about “Moon in Leo”, a lively tale set around the aftermath of the English Civil War, the Popish Plot and the genesis of Monmouth's Rebellion. This is a novel I would have adored 20 years ago. Although it’s very readable and I enjoyed it, it’s just a little bit too lushly romantic and melodramatic for my current more astringent tastes, and the heavy reliance on the arcane in the plotline didn’t totally capture me. Rosamund’s frequent determination to take the path which was clearly wrong had me feeling at times as if I was at a pantomime, seeing impending disaster to which the audience is party but the heroine completely oblivious. I kept wanting to shout “No, no, don’t do it, you silly girl!”, so I guess I certainly became involved in her story :) No-one ever said intelligence guarantees commonense, after all, and her resourcefulness, as you point out, saves her bacon more often than not.<br /><br />“Moon in Leo” will certainly appeal to those who enjoy beautiful, spirited heroines, and a well-written story with plenty of action, intrigue and a touch of the occult. I agree that KH evokes her setting with great skill. She is one of those authors - Rosemary Sutcliff is another who comes to mind - who totally inhabit a landscape and can make it a living, breathing entity for the reader.Annishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02367569632016734415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-42774708200568860672011-05-14T00:34:40.053+01:002011-05-14T00:34:40.053+01:00I love reading your reviews! They're always so...I love reading your reviews! They're always so well-written!Meghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03375626649089998707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-61830903122969890802011-05-14T00:34:14.381+01:002011-05-14T00:34:14.381+01:00I always love reading your reviews. They're ve...I always love reading your reviews. They're very detailed and well-written!Meghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03375626649089998707noreply@blogger.com