tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post815497778704504173..comments2023-11-29T07:39:34.401+00:00Comments on Carla Nayland Historical Fiction: Burgh Castle Roman fort: Cnobheresburg?Carlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-70589071953441758312011-10-28T04:35:33.519+01:002011-10-28T04:35:33.519+01:00True!True!Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-38298776789240975552011-10-27T13:01:55.987+01:002011-10-27T13:01:55.987+01:00Indeed, you have to widen the definition of 'p...Indeed, you have to widen the definition of 'primary' out by at least a century. Still, even an account written two or three centuries after the event is over a thousand years nearer than we are...Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-61062515187866790232011-10-26T21:35:58.691+01:002011-10-26T21:35:58.691+01:00Belatedly noting that in the period most discussed...Belatedly noting that in the period most discussed here, there often as not *aren't* any primary sources!Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-71304420452601823252011-10-19T15:32:36.257+01:002011-10-19T15:32:36.257+01:00I always try to go back to the primary sources if ...I always try to go back to the primary sources if possible (where there are any)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-46723093267880656962011-10-17T03:10:17.090+01:002011-10-17T03:10:17.090+01:00My hat is off to anyone who has actually plowed th...My hat is off to anyone who has actually plowed through Gildas, even in translation!Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-30799474263198483122011-10-13T19:21:43.452+01:002011-10-13T19:21:43.452+01:00Well, that's my take on Gildas's account (...Well, that's my take on Gildas's account (De Excidio II ch. 15-20 mainly) - there are no doubt other interpretations.<br /><br />It did get around; I suppose it was the name for the most powerful ruler in Europe for a good few centuries, so it's not surprising that the title should stick. Even so, its longevity is remarkable.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-3292509602063177772011-10-13T01:18:25.353+01:002011-10-13T01:18:25.353+01:00(Belatedly) very interesting about Gildas' per...(Belatedly) very interesting about Gildas' perception of the Romans as <i>an external people who periodically arrived in Britain, tried to educate the feckless natives, and went away again.</i><br /><br />The inclusion of 'Cesar' in the East Anglian line is also interesting. But as you say the emphasis might be more 'Great Ruler' than specifically Roman. As a title, Caesar really got around, 'Kaisar-i-Hind' being (to my mind) the most remarkable.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-10209398745214780832011-10-07T15:10:30.322+01:002011-10-07T15:10:30.322+01:00Jonathan - if you do, I'll be interested to he...Jonathan - if you do, I'll be interested to hear the results. My feeling is that unless there's something definitive like an inscription, it would be difficult either to prove that Burgh Castle is Cnobheresburg or to prove that it definitely isn't - probably 'consistent with but not proven', as so often. If I remember rightly, the 2005 edition of John Blair's book treated Cnobheresburg as somewhere in East Anglia, possibly Burgh Castle, but location not definitively identified.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-33305037769605342552011-10-04T13:44:34.536+01:002011-10-04T13:44:34.536+01:00Ech, short excavation reports from the late fortie...Ech, short excavation reports from the late forties. I would want to have a look at those with new eyes, and to see what John Blair says about the place in his <i>Church in Anglo-Saxon Society</i>, before relying too much on dating from those. And indeed it would not be a bad thing for me to do those things so if I do I'll report back...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-33546908827192224352011-10-04T12:45:20.881+01:002011-10-04T12:45:20.881+01:00Indeed. The answer as usual is that we don't ...Indeed. The answer as usual is that we don't really know. Gildas seems clear that he thought of 'Romans' as an external people who periodically arrived in Britain, tried to educate the feckless natives, and went away again. But we have no literary tradition from any surviving Roman or ex-Roman auxiliaries (if there were any) to compare it with. My impulse would be the same as yours, that tradition might have hung on (however highly modified by circumstance!) for a long time. There might be a straw in the wind in that the East Anglian royal genalogy has 'Cesar' as a founder figure immediately after Woden. One way of reading this is to see it as the descendants of auxiliary and/or federate troops still identifying themselves as 'Roman' in some sense. What sense that might have been is up for grabs. It may have meant nothing more than the possession of power, with 'Cesar' standing in roughly for 'Boss', but it may indicate something along the lines that you describe.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-22470740677105530892011-10-03T01:43:45.929+01:002011-10-03T01:43:45.929+01:00This is more than a bit apropos of the last discus...This is more than a bit apropos of the last discussion. What did it mean to be a 'Roman soldier' after the legions left? Did any auxiliary or federate troops identify themselves as such?<br /><br />Certainly there was nothing new about Roman soldiers obeying their commander instead of a remote central government - just ask Marius' mules. <br /><br />But assuming some body of troops has local continuity, how long does it stay Roman? My impulse is to say probably a good long time, because the recruits stand taller when the sergeant reminds them what outfit they belong to.<br /><br />Admittedly this is projecting the experience of modern armies, but what with the legionary eagles and all that, the Roman army seems to have been 'modern' in this sense. The well was deep, and could have taken a long time to finally run dry.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.com