tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post2412873742486257888..comments2023-11-29T07:39:34.401+00:00Comments on Carla Nayland Historical Fiction: PeredurCarlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-54603069742016451612010-03-18T09:50:52.173+00:002010-03-18T09:50:52.173+00:00Wademk - hello and welcome! Not to my knowledge, ...Wademk - hello and welcome! Not to my knowledge, I'm afraid :-)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-12435719137351794102010-03-18T08:07:10.580+00:002010-03-18T08:07:10.580+00:00Nayland - what a lovely name for this! Are you or ...Nayland - what a lovely name for this! Are you or your ancestors from Nyland, the secret final resting place of all the noble and wise dead of the West??wademkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08549733333944271910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-25093300340533757942009-12-17T12:27:38.194+00:002009-12-17T12:27:38.194+00:00Rick - Indeed. I wonder how Gwgaun and the other ...Rick - Indeed. I wonder how Gwgaun and the other "prostrate chieftains" were used in storytelling? Perhaps for contrast with 'heroic' patrons, which would automatically ensure that anything negative about them became accentuated over time.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-67203033180854283062009-12-17T03:13:53.533+00:002009-12-17T03:13:53.533+00:00Not to mention that the composers were entertainer...Not to mention that the composers were entertainers, not scholars. They were not in the business of hedging story material with caveats.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-66834169303369704652009-12-16T18:09:18.159+00:002009-12-16T18:09:18.159+00:00Rick - the Triads in their present form were writt...Rick - the Triads in their present form were written down in a medieval manuscript, and one or two of them mention figures who don't belong to early medieval Britain (Helen of Troy makes an appearance, and if I remember righly there's a medieval Count of Brittany in one). So although they may well preserve older traditions, a bit like Norse kennings, they evidently did get added to and updated. It's possible that the condemnatory tone for Gwgaun is a later addition, or may reflect the opinion of someone distant from the events long after the practical reality of the situation had been forgotten (perhaps a little like modern commentators who always know what Queen Elizabeth I or Mary Queen of Scots <i>should</i> have done).Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-87846893917550946322009-12-14T03:41:15.366+00:002009-12-14T03:41:15.366+00:00Gwgaun might have made a sensible choice, as you s...Gwgaun might have made a sensible choice, as you suggest. And the Triads may have been composed at a somewhat later date, when hereditary kingship had solidified more.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-39568698932263075582009-12-10T17:26:16.509+00:002009-12-10T17:26:16.509+00:00Romantic query letter - Hello and welcome! I'...Romantic query letter - Hello and welcome! I'm glad you found the content interesting, and thanks to Daphne for directing you here. <br /><br />Doug - thanks. The Bishop Ebur entry is a bit of a puzzle; would Eboracum really have had a bishopric as early as 150 AD? I wonder if the 350 years could be a mistake in the Roman numerals, or if the information was already garbled beyond recognition by the time the scribe encountered it but he thought he'd better write it down in case anyone else could make sense of it. The current Archbishop of York still signs as 'Ebor', I gather, so the title has been very long-lived indeed.<br />Re Gwgaun, we can say two things about him; he wasn't killed, and he didn't get his kingdom back. Quite a few scenarios can be constructed to fit those two statements. If Aelle took over the rule of Eboracum by force (perhaps as Peredur's enemy), then Gwgaun becomes just another of the assorted disposessed royal exiles floating around early medieval Britain after being on the wrong end of a dynastic dispute, similar to Eadwine being exiled by Aethelferth except that Gwgaun didn't make a comeback. If Aelle moved into a power vacuum, Gwgaun might have been under-age at the time, and if Aelle's rule proved acceptable there may not have been much appetite for a war to get rid of him when Gwgaun did come of age. Or maybe Gwgaun was considered not up to the job so could not command support, or maybe he was quite happy to opt out of a job that usually came to a violent end and made a life for himself somewhere else. He's bracketed with Llywarch Hen, who is supposed to have been a bard - maybe Gwgaun did something similar. There are many possibilities.<br /><br />Lady D - thank you<br /><br />Gabriele - well, if a family is going to make up (sorry, discover) an illustrious ancestor, Merlin has more style than many :-) A brave deed? Maybe, maybe not. Peredur (as opposed to the legendary Sir Percival) is a fairly obscure figure.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-47041046856150123672009-12-06T18:03:46.807+00:002009-12-06T18:03:46.807+00:00You do a great job with those obscure kings, and n...You do a great job with those obscure kings, and now veering into the even murkier Arthurian matters is a brave deed, lol. Everyone muddled those, including the Campbells who brought Merlin into their family tree. *grin*Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-26897894493957563302009-12-06T11:11:06.982+00:002009-12-06T11:11:06.982+00:00Your detailed research into this period never ceas...Your detailed research into this period never ceases to amaze me! I always learn something new from your posts so thankyou :-)Jules Frusherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207281934232383811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-57407819400670765402009-12-05T20:56:03.729+00:002009-12-05T20:56:03.729+00:00A good balance, making what you could of historica...A good balance, making what you could of historical references and only a very brief mention of the later corruption into Sir Percival! My feeling, based on the Brittonic kings being recorded as fighting Bernicians but never Deirans, is that Aelle was an ally so not responsible for Peredur's death, and he moved into a power vacuum. The only doubt I have is why Gwgaun should disappear. <br />On the name of a kingdom being appended to the name of its ruler, there is an intriguing item in the Annales Cambriae (501): "Bishop Ebur rests in Christ, he was 350 years old." The only plausible interpretation I can put on this is that the bishopRIC of York came to an end (although I'm still doubtful about the 350 years).Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02204909202506240971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-86913155190878258552009-12-05T01:33:19.369+00:002009-12-05T01:33:19.369+00:00I was sent here by Daphne at Tanzanite's Shelf...I was sent here by Daphne at Tanzanite's Shelf and Stuff and I'm glad I came. Your blog is a wealth if information and I'll be back ofter to read.<br />Have a great weekend.The romantic query letter and the happy-ever-afterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13382165250238920938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-90088026115059002982009-12-04T16:05:18.194+00:002009-12-04T16:05:18.194+00:00Tenthmedieval - my word, that's a compliment a...Tenthmedieval - my word, that's a compliment and a half :-) <br /><br />You need a linguist to answer the question as to whether Arderydd could be cognate with Deira. I've come across Deira in the form 'Deur', and a theory that it might be derived from the Brittonic word 'dyfr' meaning 'water' (same root as the name of the River Dee) and that this might refer to the wetlands around the Ouse and Aire. I don't know how solid a theory this is. Could Arderydd also be derived from 'dyfr'? The word forms don't look that similar to me, but I'm not an expert linguist. If Deira does derive from 'dyfr', then unfortunately that's a common topographical feature that could be shared with almost anywhere near an important river or major wetland, so it might be difficult to identify a more specific connection.<br /><br />Bernita - it does indeed, and there are various theories that place Arthur's (legendary?) last battle of Camlann on Hadrian's Wall. Owain Rheged also turns up now and then as a character in Arthurian romance, although whether that implies a real connection or just a poet fishing for romantic names is anyone's guess. Caveat, thought, that the location of Rheged isn't known with any certainty. (Despite the Rheged Centre near Penrith!). I shall have more to say on Rheged in later posts (but don't hold your breath).Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-59148710233148614732009-12-04T12:41:58.608+00:002009-12-04T12:41:58.608+00:00"one of the possible sources for the characte..."one of the possible sources for the character of Sir Percival in Arthurian romance."<br />Not really relevant, I suppose, and decidedly ephemeral, but does not Cumbria claim Authurian sites as Reghed that was?Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19922276.post-91450051083355760182009-12-04T10:32:18.229+00:002009-12-04T10:32:18.229+00:00I love these entries of yours. You are the new Nor...I love these entries of yours. You are the new Nora Chadwick, except a good deal harder-headed about the sources. Here's a query from shocking ignorance. Bernicia's a Celtic name in origin, I know (Bryneich), and I seem to remember that Deira is too; could it be cognate with Arderydd?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com